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Narkissos Narkissos is offline
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Default Cheating: Evolutionary traits, 'fate', or simply a crutch?
by Narkissos 03-13-2007, 05:01 PM

Evolutionary traits... 'fate' or simply a crutch?

By Corey Springer
AKA "Narkissos"
Owner of: Apollo Fitness Barbados & "The NarkSide" Fitness Forums.

[Monday 8th January 2007]


In lieu of the numerous threads which support the idea that cheating, for males, is an evolutionary trait... and as such, is a given... this thread serves to debate an opposing view.


Feel free to contribute.

Evolutionists (and those who conveniently subscribe to this school of thought) argue that males are 'hardwired' to cheat. They propose that Monogamy is a 'state of being' introduced through socialisation (societal influences: 'norms' and values)... and secondarily perpetuated through the influence of monotheistic religious sects (Christianity for example). They propose that biologically, males are 'hardwired' to procreate: Each male's thought process being geared towards acquiring as many sexual conquests as possible..(thus spreading their 'seed' and perpetuating their 'legacy'. 'Legacy for this example' being their genetic material)

Ok.

...Supposing that their argument is true... My question to you is: "Should evolution be an allowable excuse/reason for the manifestation of the abovementioned behaviour?"

I say no...

I say... look at all the other traits with which humans have evolved. Addtionally..Look at how we each actively seek to overcome such...

Some Examples:

We've evolved to be highly effective fat-storing machines. Still we each strive to actively maintain a non-bovine-esque appearance.

We've evolved with canines... thus humans are meant to eat meat (to be omnivorous rather). Still hundreds of thousands strive to be vegetarians.

Muscle growth is an adaptive response to trauma...Yes trauma.

Thus it is apparent even at our core that the large scale possession of muscle is 'unnatural'...and biologically counterintuitive: A calorically taxing state of being which or bodies fight at every turn in an attempt to return to a state of homeostasis.

Review the biomechanics of exercise v.s. 'natural' exercise execution. To successfully isolate and recruit a muscle proper form must be taught...and repeated. This is because the body's musculo-skeletal system tries is a cohesive unit which recruits secondary musculature to make tasks easier. This process in itself serves to prevent the overload of any specific individual muscle group. A number of other bilogical processes can be listed...each serving to negate a transposition to a state of higher energy need... Each we've evolved with.

Still so many of us ignore this 'hardwiring', persevering to build Herculean physiques.

Some lifters aren't even 'genetically gifted' (this being an abberation) as others in certain departments... yet they too seek to over come these 'limitations' in order to acheive a state they deem acceptable. How is it that this specific evolutionary fact perceived solely as a limitation... whereas cheating is perceived as the 'final word' of male sexual behaviour.

Why is it not too perceivably a 'limitation'?

If we are hardwired to cheat...why accept it as a state of being? Why not perceive it too as a limitation...and strive to overcome it?

Both of my grandfathers are alcoholics... One died from chirrosis of the liver.

Studies link genetic predispositions to alcoholism.

Should i then accept my fate?

So your two grandfathers are cheating scumbags.

They allowed their hardwiring to take precendence.

Should you?

Regards,

-Corey Springer
AKA "Narkissos"
Owner of: Apollo Fitness Barbados & "The NarkSide" Fitness Forums.
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  #2  
Old 03-13-2007
Mizfit Mizfit is offline
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Default Re: Evolutionary traits... 'fate' or simply a crutch?

Rationalization is bullshitting till u beleive it!

We look for excuses because we do not want to be held accountable for our own actions or affect on our lives, health or the lives of others.

In regards to what you wrote- my mother is an alcohic as well and although i know it has been linked to be passed through genetically, I myself have no desire to drink and i don't even enjoy drinking period.

Life is about living, not about makign excuses about why we are allowed to be failures.
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Old 03-13-2007
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Default Re: Evolutionary traits... 'fate' or simply a crutch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizfit
Life is about living, not about makign excuses about why we are allowed to be failures.
This is an awesome quote.. *thumbsup*
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Old 03-14-2007
Mizfit Mizfit is offline
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Default Re: Evolutionary traits... 'fate' or simply a crutch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narkissos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizfit
Life is about living, not about makign excuses about why we are allowed to be failures.
This is an awesome quote.. *thumbsup*
:)

I'm a thinker
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Old 05-09-2007
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Default Re: Evolutionary traits... 'fate' or simply a crutch?

Very interesting choice for a topic of debate. Not that I don't agree but for the sake of argument:

Why is it that people more often than not tend to follow some of the bad traits in the family? For example, my dad has 12 brothers and sisters. Every last one of the boys drank excessively and beat their wives, every last one of the girls had abusive husbands (most of my aunts have been shot repeatedly, stabbed or maimed in some other way, my mum included).

(As a counter point to my own argument, I have absolutely no desire for alcohol and my boyfriend though firm, is strictly non-violent towards women)

But 13 brothers and sister carrying on the family curse .... I think its a fate that was handed to them and they all chose to follow it mainly because they know of no alternative way to behave. People can only choose to be different if they are made aware of the fact that they have another option. Then they can chose to "accept their fate" and use that as their crutch to hobble through life or decide they want to take charge of their life and do better ... but its not easy.

BG
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  #6  
Old 05-09-2007
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Default Re: Evolutionary traits... 'fate' or simply a crutch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Gurl
Very interesting choice for a topic of debate. Not that I don't agree but for the sake of argument:

Why is it that people more often than not tend to follow some of the bad traits in the family? For example, my dad has 12 brothers and sisters. Every last one of the boys drank excessively and beat their wives, every last one of the girls had abusive husbands (most of my aunts have been shot repeatedly, stabbed or maimed in some other way, my mum included).
It generally boils down to two things: level of intelligence... and socialization.

Socialization denotes our base belifs and to some degree our situational responses.

How we are socialized also affects the formation of our concept of 'right' and 'wrong'.

However, our base intellect determines our ability to change the concept of perceived right and wrong.

i.e. Your father's brothers etc. (no personal jab intended), may not've been smart enough to have realized and experienced a state of cognitive dissonance with regard to their exhibited behaviour v.s. their concept of morality.

There is no short answer.

Motivation.. or lack thereof may also play a part in the 'why'.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Gurl
But 13 brothers and sister carrying on the family curse .... I think its a fate that was handed to them and they all chose to follow it mainly because they know of no alternative way to behave.
"Knowing no other way of being" relates to how they were socialized primarily.

However this does not excuse later behaviours.

As the process of learning is life long... as is cognitive (and to some degree: personality) development.

How does one explain a guy brought up in the ghetto who gets out and makes something of himself?

He was socialized in the same primary environment... but some factor caused him to want more: to want out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Gurl
People can only choose to be different if they are made aware of the fact that they have another option.
I strongly disagree.

The choice to be different is one of self-actualization.

i.e. A mature/intelligent individual assesses his/her behaviour and realizes they're on the wrong path


Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Gurl
Then they can chose to "accept their fate" and use that as their crutch to hobble through life or decide they want to take charge of their life and do better ... but its not easy.

BG
This is agree on.
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  #7  
Old 09-01-2007
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Default Re: Evolutionary traits... 'fate' or simply a crutch?

bump!
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Old 09-03-2007
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Default Re: Evolutionary traits... 'fate' or simply a crutch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narkissos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizfit
Life is about living, not about makign excuses about why we are allowed to be failures.
This is an awesome quote.. *thumbsup*
Wow sometimes i can type some smart stuff
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Old 12-06-2007
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Default Re: Evolutionary traits... 'fate' or simply a crutch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizfit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narkissos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizfit
Life is about living, not about makign excuses about why we are allowed to be failures.
This is an awesome quote.. *thumbsup*
Wow sometimes i can type some smart stuff
Woe so you did. Are you sure your Canadian.
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Old 10-18-2008
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Default Re: Evolutionary traits... 'fate' or simply a crutch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narkissos
...Supposing that their argument is true... My question to you is: "Should evolution be an allowable excuse/reason for the manifestation of the abovementioned behaviour?"
I think the question is in a wierdly worded since it implies that the geneticaly driven behavior needs to be excused. IMO there is nothing wrong with someone not wanting to live in monogamy as long as they are brutaly honest about it. If they are honest they dont need a excuse or reason for not beeing monogamous, its just their preference.

On the other hand if someone cheats on his gf/wife and then tries to blaim it on genetics he is just trying to escape guilt. If you make a agreement(like beeing faithfull) and break it, it is always your own fault because no matter your genetics it still takes a concious descision to put your dick into someone.

I do think Monogamy is just something we stick to due to religion&society and that we probably are "wired" for polygami, but that doesnt mean either lifestyle is superior or inferior to the other. It just a choice everyone has to make. To bad society isnt more open for the idea of other kinds of relationships, even if we now atleast somewhat accept homosexuality most are still stuck with the idea that a relationship has to be betwen 2 people when it could just aswell be betwen 5 or whatever.

One solid reason for being monogamous is of course STD's, its going to become very interesting when we can cure all STD's and anyone can fuck anyone else without needing to worry about diseases at all. Perhaps then society will be open enough to abolish the idea that monogamy is somehow morally superior to other choise.
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